Summary of President Joe Biden’s Interview with Special Counsel Robert Hur (October 8, 2023)
The transcript captures a detailed interview conducted by Special Counsel Robert Hur with President Joe Biden on October 8, 2023, focusing on Biden’s handling of classified documents during and after his vice presidency (2009–2017). The interview, attended by Biden’s legal team, White House counsel, FBI agents, and Hur’s team, aimed to understand how classified materials were stored, accessed, and potentially misplaced, particularly at Biden’s residences and the Penn Biden Center. Below is a concise summary of the key points, organized by major themes discussed:
1. Preliminary Remarks and Cooperation
- Context and Gratitude: Hur thanked Biden for his cooperation, noting the president’s busy schedule amid global events (e.g., a recent call with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu). Biden acknowledged the FBI’s familiarity with his properties due to their searches.
- Purpose: The investigation sought to trace the “paper flow” of classified documents to explain how certain materials ended up in unauthorized locations post-vice presidency. Biden’s voluntary participation was recognized as part of his cooperation.
- Clarity and Breaks: Biden was encouraged to seek clarification on unclear questions and take breaks as needed, with his counsel emphasizing they might also request clarity to maintain the interview’s flow.
2. Post-Vice Presidency Plans (January 2017)
- Career Transition: After leaving the vice presidency, Biden planned to become a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, work with the Biden Institute at the University of Delaware on domestic policy, and engage in public policy debates. He also taught constitutional law previously as a senator.
- Penn Biden Center: Biden anticipated spending significant time at the Penn Biden Center in Washington, D.C., focusing on foreign policy and engaging with Congress and international diplomats. The center’s proximity to the Capitol facilitated these activities.
- Writing and Other Initiatives: Biden wrote Promise Me, Dad, a memoir about his son Beau, motivated by personal rather than commercial goals. He also prioritized the Biden Cancer Initiative (Cancer Moonshot), leveraging Penn’s medical resources and his prior visits to global cancer research facilities to promote data sharing and collaboration.
- Residences: Biden rented a home on Chambridge Road in McLean, Virginia, maintained his lakehouse in Wilmington, Delaware, and later acquired a beach house. The Chambridge Road home supported his wife’s teaching career and his D.C.-based work.
3. Handling Classified Information During Vice Presidency
- Unique Role: As vice president, Biden had unique access to classified information, exempt from standard handling rules applicable to others in government. The investigation sought to understand his specific practices.
- Presidential Daily Brief (PDB): Biden received PDB binders, typically classified, in a locked blue bag with a laptop. He rarely retained these binders, often leaving them on his desk for staff to collect or keeping them briefly (locked) for further review. Notes were taken on separate paper, not by removing binder contents.
- Other Classified Materials: Beyond PDBs, Biden received briefings from his national security team, often with minimal formal classified markings. He returned clearly marked classified documents to staff, who stored them securely (e.g., in locked drawers or safes), though he was unaware of specific storage locations.
- Naval Observatory and Lakehouse: Biden conducted significant vice-presidential business from the Naval Observatory, where classified materials were handled similarly to his West Wing office—left on desks for staff collection. He occasionally brought classified materials to his Wilmington lakehouse, where they were stored in a library with lockable cabinets and desks. Staff retrieved these materials, though Biden didn’t direct specific storage protocols.
- Staff Processes: National security staff tracked classified materials, but Biden didn’t recall instances of lost binders or staff inquiries about missing documents. He relied on staff to manage returns to appropriate agencies.
4. “Eyes Only” Markings
- Interpretation: Biden explained “eyes only” as a non-standard marking often used by staff (e.g., Jake Sullivan) to indicate sensitive but not necessarily classified information, such as internal policy disagreements. He contrasted this with formal classification markings (e.g., “Top Secret” with colored borders), which he treated with strict care.
- Counsel’s Concern: Biden’s legal team cautioned against detailed questions on classification legalities, emphasizing his reliance on staff for compliance.
5. Move-Out Process (End of Vice Presidency)
- West Wing and Naval Observatory: Biden had no specific recollection of documents in his West Wing office or who managed the packing process, though his executive secretary (likely Michelle Smith) coordinated. Materials were sent to the Penn Biden Center or his residences.
- Chambridge Road and Lakehouse: Documents from the Naval Observatory and West Wing were moved to Chambridge Road or Wilmington. Biden was unaware of who packed or transported these, noting boxes were “dropped” at locations like his lakehouse garage.
- Lakehouse Garage: Classified documents, including a 2009 Afghanistan folder, were found in Biden’s Wilmington garage. He speculated these were moved from the Naval Observatory or West Wing during his vice presidency transition. Two “tranches” of materials arrived at the garage, possibly from the vice presidency or Penn Biden Center, mixed with unrelated items (e.g., construction materials, fans, Corvette parts). Biden moved boxes to accommodate his Corvette but didn’t unpack them.
- Penn Biden Center: Files at the Penn Biden Center included topics like cancer research, violence against women, and foreign policy (e.g., Iran nuclear deal). Biden didn’t recall requesting specific files but recognized their relevance to his post-vice presidency work. An “eyes only” envelope with Iran-related documents from 2013–2015 was found in a box, possibly sent from his vice-presidential office.
6. Specific Documents and Handwriting
- Afghanistan 2009 Folder (Garage): Found in the lakehouse garage, this folder contained classified documents, including a 2009 memo to President Obama and notes from a National Security Council meeting. Biden recognized his handwriting on some documents but didn’t recall how they reached the garage, suggesting they were moved during the transition.
- Iran Documents (Penn Biden Center): An “eyes only” envelope contained 2013–2015 Iran nuclear deal documents, some with Biden’s handwritten notes. He didn’t recall receiving or consulting these post-vice presidency, though they aligned with his role in congressional outreach on the deal. Photos from a 2015 Naval Observatory breakfast with senators showed Biden with documents, but he couldn’t confirm if they included the “eyes only” envelope.
- Notebooks: Biden viewed handwritten notebooks as personal property, distinct from government-owned classified documents, which he returned if clearly marked. He gathered notebooks at Chambridge Road, possibly placing them in the Wilmington library.
7. Intent and Awareness
- Post-Vice Presidency Handling: Biden stated he had no purpose for retaining classified documents after his vice presidency and considered it inappropriate. He maintained an eight-year habit of returning marked classified materials to their source.
- Lack of Specific Recall: Biden frequently noted his lack of recollection about specific documents, their movement, or staff actions, emphasizing he didn’t track logistics. He relied on staff to handle classified materials appropriately.
- Promise Me, Dad: Biden didn’t recall consulting classified materials for his memoir, focusing on personal reflections about his son.
8. Tone and Anecdotes
- Engagement: Biden was cooperative, often humorous (e.g., joking about the FBI finding “risqué” photos of his wife or his Corvette’s maintenance), and reflective about his career and family. He expressed frustration at not recalling specifics, attributing it to the volume of materials and time elapsed.
- Personal Touches: Biden shared anecdotes, such as his architectural interests, driving electric vehicles, and a Mongolian archery incident, adding levity to the interview.
Key Takeaways
- Biden cooperated fully, providing insights into his vice-presidential practices but often lacked specific recall about document handling or movement.
- Classified materials were managed by staff, with Biden returning clearly marked documents promptly. Some materials ended up in his garage and Penn Biden Center, likely due to transition logistics.
- The Afghanistan and Iran documents reflected his vice-presidential duties, but he didn’t recall retaining or consulting them post-2017.
- Biden distinguished personal notebooks from government-owned classified documents, viewing the former as his property.
- The interview highlighted systemic challenges in tracking classified materials during high-level transitions, with Biden relying heavily on staff.